This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
módulo profesional de Formación en centros de trabajo
C. Nal. de Vac.

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

fulano de tal, sutano de tal y mengano del cual

English translation:

Defendants X, Y and Z

Added to glossary by Ryan Kelly
May 12, 2021 14:46
3 yrs ago
51 viewers *
Spanish term

fulano de tal, sutano de tal y mengano del cual

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Greetings,

So I would like to know how to best phrase this; would it simply by "Does" or is there a more elaborate/specific way of wording this since it isn't just "un fulano de tal" but rather three different ones.

This is taken from the list of defendants in a complaint from a Puerto Rican civil case.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 Defendants X, Y and Z
2 +2 so and so, so and so, and so and so
4 John Doe I, John Doe II, and John Doe III
3 John Doe, Richard Roe, Johnny Doe

Discussion

AllegroTrans May 12, 2021:
Hold on... They have fictitious names? Is there a reason? What are they (in terms of parties)? Persons unknown who are squatters? Persons whose names are known but which must not be disclosed (e.g. on grounds of security etc.) This is essential context
philgoddard May 12, 2021:
Why are they anonymous if it's a civil case?

Proposed translations

+5
37 mins
Selected

Defendants X, Y and Z

As the people cited a defendant in a court case, X, Y and Z is sometimes used.
"Mister X or Mr. X is commonly used as a pseudonym for someone whose name is secret or unknown."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2021-05-12 15:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that first sentence should read "As the people cited ARE DEFENDANTS in a courts case..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2021-05-12 15:28:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It reminds me of when I was a teenager, a little old flasher used to follow my friends and I after school, and we called him Mr X, as that was how the newspapers described the defendants in sex cases.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wealthy-businessman-mr-x-...
"Wealthy businessman Mr X who paid off sex accusers wins secrecy order."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB: And Ms. X/Y/Z if the defendant is female...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-05-12 17:08:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Ms X denied she had bullied Mrs T..."
Reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_X

Peer comment(s):
agree Paulina Sobelman
1 hr
agree Anthony Clare-Flagg : Sounds good to me.
5 hrs
agree AllegroTrans : This is the most likely scenario for the fomalities of a court, but it would be useful to know why they are nameless; might have a bearing on the best solution
5 hrs
agree Marcelo Viera
1 day 2 hrs
agree Christian [email protected] : A certain ex-president was also "individual 1"...
1 day 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!"
+2
11 mins

so and so, so and so, and so and so

x, y, and z

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2021-05-12 14:59:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://books.google.com.uy/books?id=sZe2AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1232&...
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : X, Y and Z would work, but you can't have three people all called "so and so".
2 mins
Thank you
agree neilmac : I hadn't seen your explanation when I posted my suggestion "Defendants X, Y and Z"...
28 mins
Thank you
Something went wrong...
12 mins

John Doe, Richard Roe, Johnny Doe


More options:
John Doe, Richard Roe, Robert Roe, Mark Moe, Larry Loe, James Doe

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2021-05-12 14:59:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The name ‘John Doe’ for males, ‘Jane Doe’ for females, or the non-genderspecific ‘Doe’ are used as placeholder names for a party whose true identity is unknown or must be withheld in a legal action, case, or discussion. The names are also used to refer to a corpse or hospital patient whose identity is unknown. This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, and rarely used in other English-speaking countries including the United Kingdom, from where the use of ‘John Doe’ in legal context originates. Instead the name ‘Joe Bloggs’ is used in the UK, as well as in Australia and New Zealand.
Reference:

https://www.registryofpseudonyms.com/an_anonymous_or_unknown_person.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : Might the jury (or even the judge) not confuse John with Johnny, and vice versa?
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
28 mins

John Doe I, John Doe II, and John Doe III

Many hits for such usage on the web, at least in the US (with a document from Puerto Rico, I am assuming a target of US English rather than, say, UK or Indian English).

See, for example:

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1756607.html
https://apnews.com/article/a647afdcc3134cb7a2f234446f16ad5f
https://law.justia.com/cases/alaska/supreme-court/2018/s-158...
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : This strongly suggests they are father, son and grandson - hardly feasible anonymisation
5 hrs
I do not think so. This is conventional usage in at least some US Courts, and no attorney or judge would assume anything other than that three anonymous defendants have been labelled for purposes of identification. See the references I have provided.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search